BONUS EPISODE: Scott Ellsworth on "The Ground Breaking"

Welcome to a bonus episode of Tulsa Talks presented by Tulsa Regional Chamber. I’m your host Tim Landes.  

On May 18, Scott Ellsworth published “The Ground Breaking: An American City and Its Search for Justice.” That American city is Tulsa, which is Ellsworth’s hometown.  

In 1982 he published “Death in a Promised Land,” which brought the story of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre to national attention for the first time in six decades. It became the most stolen book at the library, which is also where Ellsworth first saw the original newspaper stories through microfilm as a middle schooler in the late 60s.  

In his book, Ellsworth recounts his nearly five decades of research and work that includes helping the Tulsa Race Riot Commission, which he co-authored the report in 2001. A couple years ago he received a call from Deputy Mayor Amy Brown asking for his help in the mass graves search. Last fall at Oaklawn, they found 12 bodies that could be from the massacre. They will start the excavation process on June 1.  

I interviewed the historian about his new book on May 11 through Zoom, while he was back at his office at the University of Michigan. There was so much great content that I couldn’t share it all in print, so by the end of our conversation I asked if I could share the audio as this bonus episode.  

We cover a lot of topics in our conversation. We discuss how the book came to be, what it’s been like building a story out of mostly oral histories and what work there is still to be done. Have you heard the stories about pilots dropping bombs on Greenwood? Ellsworth shares insight into what he believes was mostly likely tossed from planes during the tragic events. 

He shares his thoughts on whether there should be a criminal trial, the need for reparations, which he says is better described as restitution, and what we’re supposed to do after commemorating the centennial to ensure the story continues to be told. He also shares what parts of the history mystery he’s still working to solve.  

OK, let’s get to it.  
 
Here is my conversation with Scott Ellsworth about his phenomenal new book, “The Ground Breaking.”