1. EachPod

088: Complex isn't the same as complicated

Author
Tom Kerwin and Corissa Nunn
Published
Fri 06 Dec 2024
Episode Link
https://shows.acast.com/triggerstrategy/episodes/088-complex-isnt-a-synonym-for-complicated

"We often give building a house as an example of something in the complicated sphere. But then we talked in recent episodes about the nightmare build of the Sydney Opera House – that was complex, but people were treating it like it was complicated. What's the difference? What makes one complicated and one complex? Is it a sliding scale from one to the other? How do you know which realm you're in?"


This broad question comes up a lot when people encounter complexity.


  • Hello again, Cynefin
  • The phase shift from complicated to complex
  • You're not "in" any domain: instead, you decompose a project or situation into smaller chunks, distribute those chunks into domains, and then you can use applicable methods
  • Then your job is to move those chunks from one domain to another – like constraining something complex and unpredictable so you can make it more predictable for you
  • Estimating Complexity by Liz Keogh: have you done this before?
  • Light switches vs electricity substations vs energy markets vs power failures.
  • Fun with etymology
  • "An aeroplane is complicated; a mayonnaise is complex"
  • The role of connectedness
  • Global warming and a social ice age
  • Many folks are intuitively good at handling complexity without knowing all the words and that's OK
  • Processes and procedures to make things less unpredictable ... until they stop working
  • Methods to achieve the liminal complex to complicated phase shift
  • A Simon Wardley example of waste in an organisation
  • The surface layer of a thing is not necessarily everything that thing does
  • Boeing and the slip over the cliff from Clear to Chaos
  • Chesterton's aeroplane seat
  • Seeds vs Soil
  • The liminal complicated zone where experts disagree and people have Opinions.
  • If there's disagreement about an element of a project, decompose it until the disagreement goes away
  • Is there always a level of decomposition where you stop disagreeing?
  • Football example ...
  • Jefferson Fisher's courtroom example ...
  • The move into Aporia and the EU Field Guide for Managing Complexity


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