episode 11 - Communication with Brock & Connor

Summary:

This couple has aspired to remain connected and committed, in spite of transitions in life that go from dating and breaking up while living together during the pandemic. This required new ways to communicate and to make agreements about boundaries. By accessing courage, honesty, and commitment this team has recreated a loving, joyful experience together that survives living miles apart. Lessons learned have impacted both their lives in unexpected and meaningful ways, from relationships with others to careers and navigating being in new ways. Ways like speaking up and being present, to allowing space for someone else to have space. From making agreements about what we won’t do, to making agreements about what we can do together. Lessons that forgiveness is a gift to yourself.

Brock and Connor introduce themselves.

B: We dated romantically for 4 years and at one point we were engaged. We shifted out of that in a very emotional and strange time in the pandemic, while living together. We called off the engagement yet continued to isolate together because of the pandemic, as you can imagine there were challenges but I do think that ultimately, I mean we are here today very much in a loving way because we were able to navigate those times and I don’t know if Connor agrees but I feel that our relationship is stronger now than it ever has been, even though we are hundreds and hundreds miles away from one another we are still incredibly connected. So, I don’t want to speak for Connor, but that’s my elevator pitch on our relationship.

C: I mean yeah, the pandemic really put us in an incubator for all sorts of experiences together. I completely agree. It shouldn’t have happened any other way, it got us to a place now where I agree, I think it is the healthiest relationship that we’ve had in the four years, or five years we’ve known each other. Yeah, I’m super grateful for that. I don’t see that changing any time soon either.

V: I expect communication was really critical for you during all of these transitions. If you think about your central relationship is with yourself first, how do you think that played into how you communicate with each other?

B: Yeah, communication, wow…It’s funny because that’s my profession and I feel as though my relationship with Connor has been a next level education for me. I’m saying that it really illuminated for me how – there’s a meme going around the internet and I think that it is perfect for me. And the meme shows a three headed dragon, one of the heads is how eloquent I am when I am writing, the other one is how eloquent I am when I am thinking, and the other one is what a disaster I am when I try to articulate myself. And I feel that really summarizes me, and I feel that summarizes who I was in my relationship with Connor. So, I think over our time together we really learned to understand on another.

And someone else called me and asked for tips because she and her partner recently split and are trying to remain friends, so she called me for advice, and I was really flattered. Something I mentioned in that conversation is that Connor and I had a very long and sometimes uncomfortable car ride – we were going up to North Carolina from Atlanta, Georgia where we were living at the time together. So, we were cloistered in a very small car for six hours. I don’t know if Connor remembers this, but during that trip there were moments of being joyful, there were some dark moments, and I remember that we arrived at our destination and we were in the parking lot and I really think that that conversation in the parking lot was the turning point in what our relationship has become and what happened there, what transpired there was that we got real with each other. And despite our four years of being together I feel that that was the rawest and the realist that we had been up until that point. And I really do think that was a turning point for us. So, I think that’s a really good direction for us to take whatever this conversation turns into is like being raw and real. So, Connor do you remember that conversation that I’m talking about?

C: I actually don’t. (laughter)

B: Well, I remember we got into a very heated discussion around Greensboro, and we kept driving and then we parked at our friend Nancy’s. (C: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay) We stayed in that parking lot not getting out for some time I think really getting everything off our shoulders that had been on our shoulders. Well, me specifically because I’ a person who listens and rarely speaks, I know this is surprising to you and your listeners now because I’m doing nothing but speaking, but this is not normally who I am. So actually, I’ll pause, and I’ll let Connor speak.

C: Yeah, no, it’s not, and that experience with you, the one you’re bring up, I remember saying I’m not leaving the car until I get this out, and I don’t want you to leave either. So, when you think about communication, I think about me being direct, of course being authentic, but yeah, in that moment I wasn’t willing to leave that car unless things were made clear so we could take the next step in our relationship where we both had understandable expectations of what was next. Yeah, that was a fun experience. (laughter) It was definitely, had lots of ups and downs, it wasn’t just like hard and dark.

Like you said the entire time, it wasn’t like pulling teeth because there were moments there in that conversation where we were both willing to laugh, both willing to see the ridiculousness in the way that we think, or interpret right, we interpret what the other person is saying. So, I thought that was in and of itself, maybe that’s a nugget of something profound in not taking things so seriously to the point where you think you’re going to die from losing out on something.

V: What I hear you both saying is that you were honest but that you were deeply committed and even though it was uncomfortable and messy, you were committed to hanging in there together, and I think that is very moving and touching, because I think often people think when it gets hard, okay, I’m just going to quit. I’m just going to throw up my hands and walk away, and I can feel justified with that because you are being so difficult. And it sounds like you also kept brining it back to yourselves, each of you saying this is what I need to clear, not, this is what you did wrong, and maybe there was some of that in there because it always does get messy right?

B: Yeah, I think in that conversation specifically, like I said earlier in my mind that was a turning point, at least it was for me. And I feel it was the first time I had successfully cleared things off so that I could start from a clean slate. Which is not to say that immediately after that that everything was roses and daffodils, that’s not what I’m saying. But I do feel that that conversation that we had was real, raw, authentic, it was loud, I’m not going to lie, it was loud, but it also came from love and definitely a commitment.

V: I think sometimes, myself included, we don’t like messy, and I can tend to judge myself. You know, you read guidance on communication, and it will say make I statements, I feel this when you do that and be specific about all of that, but in real life there are emotions involved, it gets a little charged.

B: Yeah, and there is an aphorism around, and I don’t know that I agree with it, that the best communicators listen. I totally get the sentiment there, and I challenge that a bit because I, as Connor knows, I am a fantastic listener. When I listen however and that is essentially the bulk of what I do, I really lose myself and my boundaries and my desires in that conversation. So, I think that as with almost anything I can fathom, balance is key. And I’ve gotten to the place with Connor where – we had a phone conversation earlier today and I jokingly jumped in and said, “Oh, so do you want to hear about my life now?” You know? And I can have fun with it and be playful with him in that, because I know that if I don’t jump in, I will just be lost in the conversation. And I think that finding that balance and striking that balance is essential to being in a successful relationship, whether it’s with your partner, your friend, or your co-workers. Like across the board.

V: I like what you’re saying. Instead of holding back and relying on a skill you’re comfortable with, which is your listening skill, you’re starting to step forward and lean into, something that in the past wasn’t so comfortable, and showing up different. How do you experience that Connor?

C: Yeah, when I think about Brock talking about his skill of listening, (laughter) I feel that I am on the opposite spectrum where I like to talk and (laughter) I like to hear myself talk to.  I mean in that I think, and I process, externally, and this has been a conversation that Brock and I have had before, where I know this about myself. I know that I like to express myself through orating, right? Whereas I know other people express themselves differently.

But I think that Brock’s right, finding a harmony between knowing when to speak up for yourself and when to listen. There have been moments in my relationship and these discussions with Brock and I have sat there and realized that I’ve talked, that I’ve taken up so much time and I realize that I still don’t know where Brock is. Like I have no idea, I’m clueless, really, as to what he’s thinking, or what he’s feeling. So, it does take a self-awareness to check in and ask am I completely understanding of this other person in front of me?

V: Thank you. I would think that with hard feelings like the messy that you described that forgiveness had to play in at some point, and whether that was clearing the slate like you said, but also letting go of feelings of hurt, frustration, all of that. How do you approach that?

C: I know for me, and this only goes for my experience in my relationship with Brock. In thinking about forgiveness there is a part of me that always knows that Brock has always been a forgiving person naturally. So, I think it really has to do with forgiving myself for the actions, and yeah, just forgiving myself throughout the process. And I will be honest, it’s not the act or the beingness of forgiving is something that dissipates everything after saying I’ve forgiven myself, it’s a process and it’s a human process.  And it’s a continual commitment to being forgiving of oneself. This is something that I’m still exploring and that I’m very much in deep mediation about. What about you Brock?

B: Well, I listened to one of your previous podcast episodes and it was all about forgiveness. Elizabeth was the guest. Props to her, because forgiveness if for-giving, right, you give forgiveness to a person and it’s really a gift to yourself. She said it much more eloquently that that, but I feel ultimately, I had very little to forgive Connor for and hopefully he hasn’t felt the need to forgive me for things. I do agree with Connor that the most difficult person to forgive in our lives is ourselves. At least, that’s been my experience.

Each of us in this conversation, we’re all on our journey’s trying to be our best selves and something that I’ve realized recently is that I’m a results person and not a process person, and that can be challenging when working on yourself is not something that is ever done, right? It’s an ongoing process. I’ll be working on myself till the day that I die right? So being gentle with myself, being gentle with others and really shifting from being results oriented – thinking that at some point I’m going to be finished working on myself – shifting from that to actually enjoying the process. So that is something that I’ve been working on, and part of that work is being a better verbal communicator. Being clear, being authentic, and having boundaries which is essential. That’s where I am.

V: I’m coming to that boundaries are essentially agreements that we make, and they come from being clear also, and showing up and being willing to say, this is what I would like, or this is what I need. It seems like it should be so easy, and it seems that sometimes that is so hard. Why do you think that is?

B: Well first of all, I want to jump in a say that I love what you said, because Connor and I have had conversations about this too. When we first split yet we were still cohabitating, we decided to talk about you know, kind the rules of engagement, right now that we are (laughter – That sounds military) Yeah, the rules of disengagement, I guess. We started talking about what are we going to, what are the boundaries and so on? And something that I told him is that I don’t want to think about these things as boundaries I want to think of them as agreements. Because I want to think about what we are okay to do, rather than what we’re not okay not happening. So really shifting from what’s possible rather than these are my non-negotiables – you can’t do this, you can’t do that. Let’s talk about what we can do. And I think that was a healthy way for us to proceed with what was next for us in our relationship.

V: That sounds so much more respectful and open than protective and defensive when you say, what can we do versus what can’t we do. I love that.

C: Yeah, I really do think it made all the difference. If I think about an example, one of the things that once I was given that context in which to create agreements with Brock, I thought about it, I gave it some thought, came back and said one of the things that I want is to spend time with you. You know, one on one, I want to spend time with you connecting, still. Yes, we were living together so it was hard not to be separate, but we were also creating separation so that we could have our own alone time.  But I wanted to make it an intentional thing where we could connect and do something new or different together. And that, not only does it create a space of openness, but it really did create a space of excitement for me, like it created a space and my brain started running on all these things that we could do. Yeah, excitement and it’s kind of funny in thinking about that in our relationship towards the end, in my experience, and I think Brock would probably agree, things were not very exciting. So, I think that really did create a context shift for us. It made all the difference.

B: I want to emphasize the fact that we were isolating together during a pandemic. (laughter) And having just split off our engagement and we were in a condo that is maybe 1,000 square feet, right, in the heart of Atlanta. So, tight quarters, one bedroom – I’ll emphasize that as well. So yeah, it wasn’t always easy, but I think by and large we did a great job, and it all came down to communication. And something else that I’ll mention, is that we had agreements in the beginning and as the weeks went on, we revisited those agreements because something that we both realized is that some of those agreements were created from a place of hurt, created from a place of anger, right, and so as our relationship evolved in the new way, we realized those agreements didn’t even make sense, they just didn’t work. So, we revisited those, and we renegotiated those agreements based on who we were then, right. So, I think that was key to the evolution of our relationship as well.

V: We are coming up on time to close up the show, but I want to thank both of you for being so open and honest about how things evolved with you. And I want to reflect that I see tremendous strength and love between the two of you, and I think this experience – if you could say what you received personally for being willing to walk through this in this way, because a lot of people don’t, they point the finger, they blame, they throw up their hands and they say – You did this to me. So, what would you say you gained personally from being willing to do it different?

C: That’s a great question.

B: Well, I’ll jump in and allow Connor some time to think. Because I think what I’ve learned in my relationship with Connor has impacted my entire life. When I think about those fledgling, or those early days when he and I first split and just who I was being and like the lack of worthiness I felt for myself, I really feel that as my relationship evolved with Connor in the new way I developed, and like I said it’s a work in progress and always will be, but I developed a new understanding of my worth, a new understanding of my value system, and because of that I accessed courage, I quit a job that was kind of killing me emotionally and spiritually.

Like really, really like, I quit a job which I think to pat myself on the back, took a lot of courage, I’d been there for nine years. But you know I was working crazy hours as Connor can attest, you know I loved my colleagues, but it was a nightmare of a job at times. But because of my relationship with Connor and the things I learned about myself through him and by his side I’ve evolved in so many ways that has informed the way I operate in every aspect of my life and because of that I have a job now I work fewer hours, I make a lot more money and I think that has a lot to do with the agreements that I made with myself, right? Agreements that this is what I stand for in my life, this is who I get to be to have this happen, so yeah, I cherish Connor our relationship the way it was, the way it is, the way it will be in the future because I really feel like what I’ve learned in this experience has impacted virtually every aspect if not every aspect of my life.

V: Connor?

C: I don’t like usually giving the same answer (laughter) but yeah, I think it has a lot to do with worth and experiencing that on a personal level and how that has permeated into the rest of my life. It permeated in a way that has allowed me to see what’s really possible for my life, not just in relationship, but in relationship with myself, in relationship with my career, in relationship with my parents, and that too, it has allowed me to see possibility in relationship with other people, and what that looks like. And like Brock said knowing, if I can create agreements with a relationship that broke up right, and it turned into something like this, where yeah, I experience love and support and connection with him, then dammit I can do that with anybody else.  And I won’t settle, I really won’t settle until I’ve created that again. And that is so liberating to say (laughter) and not only does it create a sense of worth, it creates a profound joy for me. I can say today that if I were to assess my life now, I really do experience joy and happiness more times than not.

Thank you both for being here and I want to say to our listeners that if you heard the little youngster in the background, she was being put to bed and this is real life, real happenings probably some of our listeners have youngsters they put to bed. I do want to comment on the Redesign training if the listeners are interested in that because I know that a lot of what you’ve been able to accomplish together has also come from participating in that training I believe. So, listeners can find that at healing-angels.org/Redesign.

For my guests, thank you so much for being here and for listening. You can find me at vickidawn.com. thank you, Brock, thank you Connor.