MF 21 – John Martin Zen Buddhist Student

John Martin Zen Meditation Student

John practices in the Zen Buddhist tradition of Robert Aitken (Diamond Sangha)

This is a summary (not a full transcript) of the interview

John was attracted to fundamentalist Christianity as a teen for a few years. It did not work for John. He abandoned all religion in his 20’s living an agnostic/atheist life. He was accepting things that other people were saying, and he decided he was not going to do that again.

He stumbled on a book On Zen by Alan Watts. That caught his attention. Then started to figure out how to meditate, learned a bit from the TM movement.

Did you understand what parts of it?

He did not understand all of it, but he did get non-duality. This was a whole new understanding that opened up for John. He by then had his own meditation practice on and off. Year on, year off kind of practice. He would feel that he would need to get back into it.

Where you attracted to meditation as a way of insight, or as a way to experience something you were looking for?

Maybe more the insight. I got fairly involved in the lead-up to the presidential elections in 2004. When that was all done, and the dust settled, I realized I was full of anger and even hatred towards the chosen political enemies. Then I phoned the Zen Center after finding them online.

Have you found that joining a group is different than meditating alone?

Yes, definitely. Especially the first couple of years, John derived tremendous support from the regular weekly sits, and meditating and support from other people. That whole structure that keeps you on the cushion, and prevents you from a moment of restlessness coming along, and tricking you into jumping up, and doing something else. And the book studies have been very helpful.

So the structure is very helpful too?

Yes, extremely helpful. If you see structure as a means to an end, as a tool, then you wouldn’t see it as limiting or old-fashioned tradition that doesn’t fit the modern era. It’s there to help people.

How has your relationship with those perceived enemies changed at all?

I don’t think my political views have shifted much. My indulging in hatred is way less than it used to be (laughs). So that’s a good thing! The hatred thing, the target is no longer individual people. There are so many facets to a complex society, some not functioning well, sick, very poor design. So a person may get elected to congress.

For example the structure of congress is stacked against you. Very hard to be an awake and honest person, and not get corrupted by the money from the lobbyists and so forth, when you’re in that environment all the time.

So, I guess I’ve shifted from individuals to the system that I perceive as something that is bad.

Do you see that a system can be shifted by individuals or groups, or completely needs to be uprooted or re-designed?

Uprooting is a tempting fantasy, because it is quick. The ultimate expression of that is war. You perceive an enemy, and the best thing is just to eliminate your enemy.

But then you assume of enemy as outside?

Yes, the enemy is all outside, and things good is all in me, and all things bad in someone else.

But to truly have a culture evolving into something healthier, does require the individuals in that culture, become more aware, educated and enlightened.  And developed in a balanced way, where not just our minds, but our hearts are also developed.

Has this way of long-term seeing changed the way you get attached to outcomes?

Perhaps, I understand how to be unattached to outcomes, but more focused on the nature on your actions, is perhaps a more spiritual way to be in the world.

When you practice there is a certain letting go of the desire of certain outcomes, not having strong attachments to certain outcomes, whether in your immediate area,