The Counter-Narrative show discussed defunding the police with guest Caitlin Selman, an assistant professor of criminology at Framingham State University. Selman explained the differences between police reform, abolition, and defunding, emphasizing that defunding means reallocating police funds to community services. She highlighted the historical roots of policing in protecting property and whiteness, and the current role of punishment in maintaining an unequal social order. Selman also discussed the concept of transformative justice, which aims to address the root causes of harm, and the importance of community-based solutions over reliance on police.