Mike Kuniavsky on the mindshift needed to design for ecosystems

This week's episode of the Design Podcast features a conversation I had with Mike Kuniavsky last fall. Kuniavsky is a user experience designer, researcher, and author currently working at Parc. He's also a speaker at the upcoming O'Reilly online conference "Designing for the Internet of Things," September 15, 2016. In our chat, Kuniavsky talks about designing for the IoT, service design, and the mindshift needed to design for ecosystems.