Messy Grace (Part 1) - Kaleb Kaltenbach

Messy Grace (Part 1) - Kaleb Kaltenbach
Messy Grace (Part 2) - Kaleb Kaltenbach
Messy Grace (Part 3) - Kaleb Kaltenbach

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

Loving My Gay Parents

Guest:                         Caleb Kaltenbach                            

From the series:       Messy Grace (Day 1 of 3)

Bob: Caleb Kaltenbach’s parents divorced when he was young. His mom came out as a lesbian; his dad came out as a gay man. That gave Caleb a unique perspective on life. 

Caleb: I remember marching in a Gay Pride parade one time and seeing all these—I’ll use quotations, “Christians”—holding up signs, saying, “God hates you!” I remember that so vividly, almost as if it happened yesterday. I remember looking at my mom, looking at her in the eye, and saying, “Mom, why are they acting like this?” I was about nine or ten—somewhere around there. She looked at me and she said, “Well, Caleb, they’re Christians; and Christians hate gay people.” 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, July 2nd. Our host is Dennis Rainey; I'm Bob Lepine. Caleb Kaltenbach grew up in what I think we’d all agree was a somewhat messy family situation. He had to learn, eventually, how to apply what he calls “messy grace.” Stay with us. 

1:00

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. You know, every family is messy at some level; right? But there are—

Dennis: No doubt. I was just withholding the answer there because—

Bob: It’s self-evident; isn’t it?

Dennis: Wow! I mean, you get six children, two imperfect parents; I mean, what are you going to get? You’re going to get some—some messiness. This is where I think the Bible has all kinds of relevance, because it’s about messy people. It’s about imperfect people / imperfect stories and how God, in His sovereign majesty, works out a story that honors Him. 

Bob: Yes; I love what Matt Chandler says— 

2:00

—he says, “It’s okay not to be okay; it’s just not okay to stay there.” [Laughter] That’s what the story of redemption’s all about!

Dennis: Well, we have a guest with us today who has quite a story. Now, I just want you to know—as a listener, I don’t know what you’re doing; but set it aside—because what you’re going to hear is going to be riveting—I am confident of that. He has written a book called Messy Grace, and it is subtitled: How a Pastor with Gay Parents Learned to Love Others Without Sacrificing Conviction. Now, that is a mouthful!

Bob: Yes.

Dennis: We have with us Caleb Kaltenbach. Welcome to the broadcast.

Caleb: It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Dennis: Caleb, this lead line over the title of your book, How a Pastor with Gay Parents Learned to Love Others—wow! Take us back to the home you grew up in. I mean, I’ve heard a lot of stories; but I’m not sure I’ve heard one about a pastor who came from that kind of background.

3:00

Caleb: I was raised in Columbia, Missouri, and Kansas City—actually, I started out in Columbia. Both my parents were professors at the University of Missouri-Columbia and at local schools there—taught subjects like philosophy, law, rhetoric, and English literature. When I was two, they got a divorce; and both of them entered into same-sex relationships. 

My mom went into a 22-year-long monogamous relationship with her partner, Vera—she was a psychologist. Now, my dad on the other hand—he had several different relationships. He never had one relationship that lasted. I actually—I didn’t even know about my dad until I got to be college-age—maybe just graduated from college—but I kind of always had my suspicions; I don’t know. But I was raised by three gay parents. 

Bob: This is at a time that is unlike today, when these relationships tended to be more closeted. Were your parents “out” about their sexual preference?

Caleb: My dad was in the closet. My mom and her partner, as I said—they did go to Kansas City. 

4:00

They were very loud and proud, and very out. They were on the board of directors for the Kansas City chapter of GLAD. They were activists. They took me with them to Gay Pride parades, and bars, and clubs when I was preschool age/elementary age. I remember going with them to activist events. I remember marching in a Gay Pride parade one time and seeing all these—I’ll use quotations, “Christians”—holding up signs, saying, “God hates you!” If that wasn’t offensive enough, they were spraying people with water and urine at one of the particular parades.

Dennis: Oh! 

Bob: Oh!

Caleb: I remember that so vividly, almost as if it happened yesterday. I remember just, right now to this day, I remember looking at my mom, looking at her in the eye, and saying, “Mom, why are they acting like this?” I was about nine or ten—somewhere around there. She looked at me and she said, “Well, Caleb, they’re Christians; and Christians hate gay people.”  

That stuck with me. My whole childhood, I was raised to believe that. 

5:00

I saw that when AIDS was developing in America and spreading, and we were learning more about it. Many of my mom’s friends contracted it. I remember one man, named Louis, who was a young man—his family was Christian. They already didn’t accept him, because he was in a same-sex relationship. When he got AIDS, they really didn’t want to have anything to do with him. We went and visited him in a hospital one time.

Dennis: Yes; you describe a scene in your book that is pretty—

Caleb: Right.

Dennis: —pretty amazing. 

Caleb: Yes; and the most disturbing thing was—obviously, it’s disturbing to see somebody die from AIDS, if you’ve ever seen that—but seeing his family being so nonchalant, while they were reading their Bibles, lined up against the wall, like they were waiting for a firing squad to co...