Kimberly talks with Reese Williams about Dissociative Identity Disorder, the link between homelessness and mental illness, and the importance of places like Bridgehaven for people living with mental health disabilities. Plus Kimberly and Sam talk about a study showing higher rates of loneliness among people with disabilities.

Visit Bridgehaven Mental Health Services

Read more about the study on loneliness among people with disabilities

Thanks to Chris Ankin for use of his song, “Change.”

The book "A Celebration of Family: Stories of Parents with Disabilities." is available from Amazon here.

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Demand and Disrupt is sponsored by the Advocado Press and the Center For Accessible Living.

You can find the transcript in the show notes below when they become available.

Transcript

You're listening to Demand and Disrupt, the podcast for information about accessibility, advocacy, and all things disability.

Kimberly: Welcome to Demand and Disrupt, a disability podcast.

I'm your host, Kimberly Parsley.

Sam: And I'm your co-host, Sam Moore.

I am in Henderson, Kentucky and Kimberly is in Bowling Green.

How's life in the Corvette city, Kimberly?

Kimberly: Well, it's just going great.

Just staying busy as can be.

How about you up there in Henderson?

Sam: Oh, I'm doing quite well.

Staying pretty busy myself.

I've got to, as we record this, it is the eve of the play day.

And so, you know, we've been busy ourselves with that, me and the crew.

And so in two weeks, when we reconvene here, Kimberly, I will have a nice reflection ready for you.

Kimberly: Okay.

And what's your lines memorized percentage now, Sam?

Sam: I'd say it's, well, I know a bunch of people were probably sweating when I said I was about 50 last time.

I'd say it's about 99 this time.

You know, I'm to the point that at this point I can at least mess up without people knowing that I messed up, you know?

Kimberly: Well, there you go.

There you go.

Now, so what about you?

Are you nervous?

Sam: You know, I'm more excited.

I really enjoy these plays and, you know, there'll be a few nerves tomorrow, I'm sure.

But like our playwright, Bob Park says, you know, a few nerves aren't necessarily a bad thing because it keeps you focused and, you know, brings out the best in you as a performer.

Kimberly: So it's a motivator, I guess it is a motivator.

Well, good to know.

Well, you get to report back next time and let us know how it all went.

This is not exactly your debut though, cause you've done this before.

Sam: So we've done it before, but it's the finale.

This guy says it's his last one.

So it could be our, you know, it could be our climax.

Kimberly: Yeah.

Your swan song.

So, yeah.

So, well, today on the show, our interview guest is Reese Williams.

And Reese is someone who lives with a mental health disability, and he's going to talk to us all about that and how he lives with that and how he finds help and a great conversation.

Wonderful conversation.

Found out lots of things that I didn't know.

So, y'all stay tuned for that.

And you know, I was, I looked through lots of disability articles.

I'm constantly, I get newsletters and things all the time, so I can stay on top of, all the latest news.

And there was a study recently talking about a much higher, incidence of loneliness among people with disabilities.

And I thought two things.

First, my thinking was, well, duh.

And my second thing was, well, are there some reasons that I haven't thought about?

I mean, I'm blind, so transportation is obviously it for me.

So I started thinking about other reasons, and things.

So Sam, what, what do you think that is?
That, well, I guess the first question, are you lonely Sam?

Sam: No, not at this particular point.

Kimberly: That's because you're busy.

You're just an active person.

Sam: I try to stay active as much as possible, but, I could see that being an issue.

Yeah, well, like you said, transportation and as we get older and, sort of cut back on our schedule and, you know, we become more relaxed.

And our schedule becomes more open.

Maybe that can be attributed to loneliness that in combination with transportation, plus, you know, as we get, like you were pointing out before we went on the air here, as we, get older, health tends to become an issue.

And so when we go out, we have to take our, you know, ventilators and equipment and things like that.

And, and that can be a pain too.

And so we're like, you know, is it worth the trouble to tote all this stuff to our destination?

Kimberly: Right.

Right.

Yeah.

If, for so many of us, you know, it does require extra equipment that has to be carried around.

And for me personally, there's some anxiety.

I mean, I'm home so much and it's kind of like a snowball that the more I'm home, the more anxious I am about getting out, the more anxious I am about getting out, the more I stay home, you know?

Sam: Yeah.

And sometimes the, more you stay home and I like my home nights.

I'll, I won't lie, but you know, sometimes the longer I stay home, the more I find things to worry about, which is why I think we should all try to get out at least a few nights a week

Kimberly: and how many times have you dreaded a thing dreaded dreaded, getting ready for the thing, doing the thing.

And then after you get there and you get home, you are really glad you put forth the effort.

Sam: Yeah.

And you get home and you're like, man, I am in a lot better mood than I would be had I stayed home.

Kimberly: Yes.

Yes, exactly.

New experiences are important for body and mind.

Sam: Yeah.

And you surprise yourself, like you said, with how enjoyable they are a lot of times.

Kimberly: Yeah, it's true.

And now all of that is true and yet I do find myself, I never used to watch TV because there just wasn't very much audio description at all.

And now there's audio description, which is where you know, there's a track that explains things that aren't obvious, certain graphics that are for people who are blind and visually impaired, it's kind of like for blind people, audio description is what, captioning is for somebody who's hard of hearing exactly.

Exactly.

So there's so much more audio description content now that I found myself enjoying television so much more.

And we've been watching Wednesday on Netflix.

When you stay, yes.

Are you an Adams family fan at all?

Sam: Yeah, I like the Adams family.

Yeah, I like, I especially like the theme song.

They're creepy and they're, you know, that, that always, especially around Halloween that always, you know, takes precedence in my memory.

Sam: Right.

And well, Wednesday they did a season, I don't know, a couple of years ago about Wednesday Adams, and she goes to something called Nevermore Academy.

Sam: Nevermore Academy.

Kimberly: Nevermore Academy founded by of course, Edgar Allan Poe.

Sam: And, oh yeah, absolutely.

Kimberly: And the second season just started a couple of weeks ago.

So we have been watching Wednesday and I love it.

Sam: And it sounds like an interesting Adams family spin-off.

Kimberly: Oh, it is.

I love it.

It's so good.

We make the kids, Michael and I make the kids watch it with us and, and they actually do like it.

Sam: So I was going to say, I'm sure it's probably grown on them.

Kimberly: No, they do like it.

Yeah, they, it's one of, yeah, they, they like it.

Sam: And you're on season two, you said?

Kimberly: Yes.

Yes.

Season two is they, just released season two a couple of weeks ago.

So yeah, there's four episodes out.

You know what?

They release them on, well, obviously Wednesdays.

Sam: So, Oh yeah.

For Wednesday, for Wednesday Adams.

Kimberly: Right.

Right.

So by the time our listeners are hearing this, there's probably at least one or two more episodes out, maybe more.

So, Right.

Sam: Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

And you said there's four out and you've probably, I guess you've watched what a couple of the season two.

Kimberly: Oh, I've watched all four of the episodes of season two so far.

Yeah.

Sam: So, Oh, okay.

So you watch, I guess like once a week.

Kimberly: Yes.

They you know how all the streaming services do it differently.

Well, now they came out with like two episodes the first week and then two episodes the second week.

And I don't know if that's what they'll continue or they'll cut down to one.

Who knows it's all to make you keep paying.

Sam: Yeah.

And you watch these shortly after they come out.

I'm sure like within a few days.

Kimberly: Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Exactly.

Exactly.

On Netflix.

Yep.

I do.

And so there's lots of new media and you know, speaking of media that's not new, old media.

Did you know that this month is the 50th anniversary?

Drum roll 50th anniversary of Bruce Springsteen's born to run album.

Sam: Ah, the boss himself,

Kimberly: the boss himself.

I know, I'm a huge fan of the boss.

Sam: His music spans generations, doesn't it though?

Kimberly: It just does.

My son even loves, loves the boss.

Sam: So you don't have to have been born during that time span to appreciate his music.

Kimberly: No, no, he's full of talent, full of talent.

So are you a fan of the boss?

Sam: Yes, most definitely.

I love the boss and that album born to run, let's see 50th anniversary.

So that would have been 70, which by the way, Kimberly, didn't mention this, but I will mention it for her.

That album came out the same year that she was born.

Kimberly: It did.

It did indeed.

And, yet the boss is still touring, still on stage, you know?

Sam: So, and still at least fairly active.

Kimberly: Yeah, I think we talked about, he's on stage.

He may need a stool to sit on when he's up there.

Sam: So whatever it takes.

Kimberly: Yep.

So what's your favorite Bruce Springsteen song?

Sam: Well, it's hard to pick one single favorite, but, you know, if I had to narrow it down between two and three or, you know, two or three, I would definitely, I would definitely say, born in the USA, that always makes me feel patriotic and, glory days, glory days.

That's a good, especially me being a baseball fan.

It talks about a baseball player in the song.

And that's true.

And of course, the secret garden song, you remember that one?

Kimberly: i, do, uh-huh.

Sam: From the Jerry Maguire movie.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good one.

And, of course, born to run for the title track from the aforementioned album.

Kimberly: Well, I think you and I have to pick, you know, dancing in the dark, right?

Sam: Oh, yes, that's one.

That's one we can relate to.

We have to have dancing in the dark there.

Yeah, we have to throw that into the mix.

Kimberly: But, I think my favorite, I think it's probably thunder road.

I think that's my favorite.

Sam: Thunder road.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

It sounds familiar.

I'm, I'm sure I'd know it if I heard it.

Kimberly: It's the first, song on the born to run album.

And I think it's my favorite one to run on that album.

Born to run was not Bruce Springsteen's first album, as some people think it was not his first, but it was the one that really rocketed him into popularity.

Sam: It's the one that if you had to, if you had to pick a signature album from Springsteen, that would probably be,

Kimberly: I think it would be, I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

That was a good one.

Sam: And, you probably had a, uh, you probably had a cassette tape.

Kimberly: I believe, you know what?

I had a cassette tape of born in the USA, which was my mom's cause my mom was actually, she was a Bruce Springsteen fan.

So I'm one of the, I believe born, I believe born in the USA might have been the first cassette tape we had.

And I remember she had a little, what were the little records called?

Not, the big album size, but the single.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

What were they?

Yeah.

Sam: Wasn't an eight track, was it?

Kimberly: No, it wasn't an eight track.

It wasn't tape.

It was a record, but they were the small records.

They were like singles.

They had anyway.

Yeah.

Sam: I don't remember exactly.

I know what I know the term if I heard it.

Kimberly: Yeah.

It was a number.

It's like 45, it wasn't 45s were 45 the album.

I don't know.

So see, I'm old, but I'm not that old.

Sam: Yeah.

You, weren't around when dinosaurs are on the world or anything.

Kimberly: No, not, not even close.

No.

So, and my mom had the Bruce Springsteen hungry heart.

You know, that was like one of his early hungry heart.

Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That yeah, she had that on a single, so I actually had that.

So yeah, Bruce Springsteen long time.

Sam: Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, there's multiple generations of Kimberly's family.

I'm sorry, John.

And you said even your kiddos are fans.

Yeah.

Yup.

Ian is, Ian is especially Ian.

Yeah.

So, yeah, his legacy lives on and his music.

Kimberly: True that.

Absolutely.

Sam: And his actual stage presence at times.

Kimberly: Right now.

You know, another thing that is in the news right now is that is concerning to artists and creators is AI, artificial intelligence.

So, tell me Sam pontificate, if you will, on your thoughts on AI.

Yes.

Sam: I've never heard, you might've just added a word to my vocabulary there.

Kimberly pontificate, but, anyhow, well, you know, it's amazing how quickly it is becoming more and more part of our lives and in some cases that's good and in some that's bad.

But I've noticed that, you know, whenever I type a question or whatever into a Google search engine, I always get an AI overview, you know, what I'm talking about,

Kimberly: What even is that thing?

I don't even know what that is.

What am I supposed to do with that?

Sam: Well, you can't trust it completely.

You know, it'll give you, are you saying it lies?

It'll give you what it thinks it reads, but, then I always have to you know, always want to verify that via trustworthy sources.

So you can't always go by the answer that AI gives you to a question.

Kimberly: We're entering some interesting times.

Murky waters

Sam: Sort of uncharted ground, but, it's sort of like credit cards, Kimberly.

You just have to know the pros and cons.

Kimberly: I guess so.

I guess so.

Isn't that true with all new technology though?

We're always scared.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's always true.

We're always scared until we learn exactly what the parameters of the thing are,

Sam: You know, they have what they call the innovators.

They were like the first person, the first people to try these new things and use them.

And I'm not what they call an innovator.

I want to have proof that it works for a few people before I make the investment.

Kimberly: Yeah, yeah, I understand that.

I think that that's probably, prudent way to be.

So, yeah, exactly.

So a lot's going on.

It's a busy time.

AI is of course going to be even more in the news because at the time when we're recording in late August, mid to late August, I believe Google just had a big event and of course Apple has a big event in where they introduce their new stuff in September.

So I have feeling we're going to hear a lot more about AI.

Sam: And keeping up with the new Apple innovations is almost impossible because there's, you know, new stuff popping up every time the wind changes direction.

Kimberly: True, true.

And I'm never sure.

Is it actually that much different?

I mean, Yeah, yeah.

Sam: Is it worth me forking out the big bucks to buy something that's not that much different than what I've got already?

Kimberly: Right.

I am not one of those who tends to pre-order the latest iPhone.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, me either.

No, I don't update.

I don't buy new.

I don't until other people have already vetted it for me.

I mean, same here, but I'm always excited to see what's coming out or what they tell us is coming out, whether it actually comes out or not, who knows,

Sam: but it's always good to at least keep an open mind to it.

And that's something that I could probably even do a better job of myself.

But, you know, we should at least appreciate it and be receptive.

Shall we say, yeah, yeah, exactly.

I've so yeah, lots, lots going on.

Lots of, you know, I think August ushers in September.

And then before you know it, it seems like you're in the holidays.

Sam: So busy time, you got your Christmas shopping done.

Kimberly,

Kimberly: You're funny, Sam.

No, it's just the year at this point, once you hit this time of year, it's just pedal to the metal

Sam: There's never a dull moment between August and December.

Kimberly: That is true, it is so true.

Yeah.

Nope.

Not at all.

Sam: So we'll have plenty of discussion points, folks over the next four.

And you can add to those by the way.

Kimberly: Oh, here we go.

Tell us how Sam. tell us how.

Sam: You can email us.

Well, we always love hearing from our, we call them disruptors.

Don't we?

Kimberly,

Kimberly: We do.

We do.

They are our disruptors.

Yes.

Sam: We always love hearing from our disruptors and the email address.

It's real hard [email protected]

Kimberly: That is how you get us.

Sam: That is how you find us with your questions and comments and show ideas.

And you might even get a shout out on the show.

Kimberly: You might even exactly.

So do that, do that definitely.

But before you do that, stay tuned and listen to my interview with Reese Williams.

(Music playing)

Kimberly: Welcome to demand and disrupt a disability podcast.

I am Kimberly Parsley and I am here today with Reese Williams.

Hello Reese.

How are you doing?

Reese: Well

Kimberly: Wonderful.

And Reese and I are going to have a discussion about mental health.

And that's not something we have covered enough here on demand and disrupt, but we are going to rectify that today and talk about mental health and mental health services and maybe ways other people can find information if they're in need of mental health services.

So Reese, why don't we start by having you tell us about your journey with mental health.

Reese: Well, that journey started

Probably when I was extremely young, I was born into a family that there was a lot of trauma and so I don't remember anything before trauma.

And so by the time I was maybe three, I had dissociative identity disorder.

Well, and by the time I was three, a new personality had appeared.

Kimberly: So tell me about what is that dissociative identity disorder?

What is that?

Reese: Associative identity disorder is something that happens under extreme and prolonged trauma.

It's when the mind just is, it's that you can't take it.

And the brain is actually, it works amazingly and it separates you from whatever's happening by creating another part who will experience it instead of me.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Kimberly: So it's like a self protective.

Reese: Yes, it's sort of protective.

Yes.

Kimberly: Okay.

Okay.

I, not knowing anything about that.

I would assume three is extremely young for that to happen.

Reese: Yes.

Kimberly: Okay.

And, so then tell me how you continued on dealing with that.

Reese: Well, because my abuse lasted until I was 18 years old, I had several personalities cause there, you know, it was just one trauma after another.

And so my mind split into more than nine personalities.

Now they're only eight active.

And what that means is there's eight of us that will come out and be present.

There are other ones that I don't need anymore that, and some of them, I don't even remember, you know, I'll go back and read something and know that none of us wrote that.

And so, you know, there are some that I just don't remember anymore, but they never go away.

They have a job to do and they come out when they're needed.

Kimberly: I, guess I don't even know where to begin asking about that.

How, I guess, how do you function with that?

Reese: It's taken years and years to be able to communicate with each other.

And really I started being able to do that a couple of years ago, when I finally found a decent therapist and I'm 63 years old, way back when it was considered not real and they called it, I can't remember what they called it other things.

Kimberly: Is that what they used to refer to as like split personality disorder or something?

Reese: It was multiple personality.

Oh, right.

Right.

Kimberly: And you're right.

I remember people saying, well, that's not real.

Reese: And most people, they watch the movie Sybil or some of these new ones about, you know, having multiple personalities and people actually think that's what it's like, and it's not, it's not like that.

It's not like so bizarre.

At least to me.

Kimberly: Yeah.

And it's hard to know when you're getting your information about something from something that is a work of fiction, it's hard for people to know what's creative license and what is based in reality, right?

Reese: Exactly.

Kimberly: So how long, how long did it take you?

You said to find a therapist who could help you work with that?

Reese: The first therapist I found, I was in my late twenties and she's the first one that diagnosed me at that time.

I wasn't ready and I didn't want to talk about it.

And so I left that therapist and it wasn't until about two and a half, three years ago that I finally found a therapist that was willing to accept the diagnosis, agree with the diagnosis, and then allow other parts to come out for therapy because every one of us has been through trauma and, you know, every one of us needs help in some way or another.

There's like separate people.

We all have different interests in our mind.

We all look differently, write differently, act differently.

The last two therapists that I've had, have been able after a time to recognize who is out at the time, which is so nice.

Kimberly: Yeah.

And now do each of the personalities have a different name?

Reese: They do.

They do.

Different age and different names.

Kimberly: Okay.

So like if I'm talking to Reese right now, will Reese know if another personality sort of what, what happens then?

Tell me what happens then.

Like takes over.

I don't, I apologize for no, that's okay.

Reese: That's okay.

This is about education.

Kimberly: So it is.

Yes.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Reese: I want to be honest and say there really is no Reese.

Reese was a name chosen just out of necessity.

The person that was born in this body since the abuse happened so young has been, I don't know how to explain this, where you would understand has been put aside and protected and not allowed to come out.

And so that part is still very, very young and it had been the decision to let that part stay protected and not come out.

And so you are talking to Devon.

I'm the one who handles the business, you know, anything that daily talking to doctors or, you know, like this interview.

Kimberly: Uh-huh.

Okay.

Okay.

So is this the personality that you'd say you're, most comfortable with?

Reese: Actually, I'm comfortable with all of them.

Kimberly: Okay.

Reese: Now some of them, there's one named Alex and he is 16 and he acts like a 16 year old.

Kimberly: Oh my goodness.

Reese: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I had been in therapy in a group not long ago and he came out and he told the therapist, this is just all stupid.

You know, we're in a group of people and he just says, this is just stupid.

I don't see what the point is.

Kimberly: That sounds like a 16 year old.

Reese: Yeah, it does.

Yeah.

Yep.

It does.

So the age differences are three, five, nine, 12, 16, 18.

I'm somewhere in my thirties.

I don't know exactly how old.

And then Wendy is the artist and she is in her twenties.

Kimberly: And do the personality shifts happen in an effort to protect you or to me or to meet a need?

Reese: Yes, both.

Both.

Kimberly: Okay.

Okay.

Reese: And most of the time they will only come out if there's a trigger except for, you know, me, Devin and Jack.

We're out most of the time.

Kimberly: Okay.

Okay.

And so tell me about, I mean, that sounds like a lot to deal with.

Reese: Yeah.

Trauma and all those things.

Tell me what impact that had on your ability to function and live a life in society.

Reese: Well, it's still difficult to do that.

It has affected relationships.

You know, to be honest, my sons and I are estranged and I don't remember much of their childhood.

So I don't know if there were things said, you know, I wish I could remember, but I don't, and that evidently means there was another part or parts raising them.

So that's been, a consequence.

I'm disconnected quite often, you know, especially from emotions.

Sometimes I just don't even know what I'm feeling.

And then there's the whole thing about trust that nobody can be trusted unless they earn it.

I'm always guarded.

There's always a wall up.

And I really separate myself from other people.

Kimberly: Do you think that's common among people who have mental health difficulties?

Reese: I think so.

I think that people with mental health difficulties, oftentimes they don't talk about it.

You know, I know many people with mental health disabilities who've lost families, can't make friends.

Just, it's a very lonely world to have a mental illness because unless a person has one, they have no idea what it's like to deal with that out in the world.

Kimberly: And it is a disability, I mean, it is a disability, correct?

You would consider yourself disabled.

Reese: Yes.

I've been disabled for a while.

Yeah.

Right.

Kimberly: Because I think it's important that we say that it's considered a disability.

Yeah.

I think it's important to say that.

And also, tell me about maybe what it's like to have a disability that's hidden.

Reese: Well, the disability that's hidden, people don't understand that a lot of times, not even family members because they can't see it.

And when it has to do with trauma, I get, you know, I used to get family members.

I don't see my family anymore, but I used to get them saying, what, you know, why don't you just get over it?

I even had, I even was married and the person told me, aren't you finished with that yet?

You don't ever get finished with it.

It's there.

Kimberly: Right, right.

Reese: It's not something, mental illness, you do not get over.

Kimberly: I think people sometimes equate mental health and mental illness with like a mood.

Reese: Yes.

Kimberly: You know, and it's not that, no easier for you to get over your mental illness than for me to get over blindness, you know, it's just not a thing that will happen so now you have found a community in Bridgehaven.

Reese: Yes.

Kimberly: Can you tell me about Bridgehaven?

Reese: Yeah.

Bridgehaven is a mental health center here in Louisville and it's a big place.

It's over on second street and they, sorry, they are art based and there are, you don't, you get a therapist, but you also have therapists that you can interact with all day long.

Everything is run by therapist or peer support specialists.

So if, if my therapist is unavailable to me then I can always go speak to one of the other ones without having to make an appointment.

They're very generous with their time.

And for the first time in my life, back when we had snow and I wasn't able to go, I mean, Bridgehaven is my lifeline.

I actually had three of the therapists call me to see how I was doing.

Kimberly: Oh, that's nice.

Reese: Yeah.

To me that that's just about unheard of.

Kimberly: And you said it's art based.

Tell me about that.

Reese: They have a lot of programs with art, they have a lot of art therapists and I had never done art therapy until starting to go there.

And it's something that I can't even describe, how they can, I don't know how they can tell what's going on or give insight to me through art and, you know, they'll ask certain questions about whatever it is I've created and they pull things out of it that I would not have thought possible.

They do fun things.

It's not always just therapy in about, let me see three or four times a year.

They have an opportunity for artists to sell things.

There is a St.

James, they have a table that we're allowed to sell things.

They just had their spring art show.

There's a Christmas Bazaar.

I mean, they give you a lot of opportunities to actually be able to make some money from your art.

Kimberly: Oh, wow.

And what kind of art mediums are available and what kind do you do?

Reese: I do sculptures.

Kimberly: Oh, that sounds fun.

Reese: And actually in the art studio, they have ceramics, they have a pottery wheel, they have a kiln.

And they have just about every kind of art supply you can think of.

You know, all kinds of paint and drawing materials and they have fabric and people learn to sew.

So it's really, it's helpful things.

I mean, you know, learning to sew is a good skill for some people to have.

Kimberly: True, true.

Reese: I don't know where else they could learn that.

Kimberly: Now, can you tell me about maybe a piece you've recently created and kind of, if there's any insight, a therapist was able to glean from that piece.

Reese: They will ask questions.

Like I did a piece where the prompt was to, we do a visual journal.

And what that is, people are writing in a journal.

Sometimes they're afraid that somebody will read it.

A visual journal is something that you do collages in, you can draw in.

And one of the prompts was to make something in your visual journal to describe how you feel today.

And so I go through and just pick out pictures in magazines and then they'll, they'll talk about it.

Like what makes you feel this way?

Why did you choose this picture?

Tell me about the process that you went through and, you know, how did you feel before?

How do you feel after?

It's just really, interesting.

Kimberly: That sounds like that would be very soothing for the mind to be focused on.

It does sound like it would be very soothing.

I can see how, that would be beneficial.

So are, do you go to bridge Haven every day?

Reese: I do.

Kimberly: How important is it for people with mental health disorders to find a place like bridge Haven?

Reese: I think it's very important before bridge Haven, I didn't go anywhere.

And so I spend too much time, too much time thinking.

Bridge Haven is structured.

It's just, it gives me time to get out of myself.

And when we do the art, therapist liked to call it the flow state.

They wanted to get into the flow state where you said it was just very soothing, the type of mindfulness.

Kimberly: And that's not, that's, that's very difficult to achieve on your own.

Isn't it?

Reese: Correct.

And also just being in a place where everybody else has a mental illness and nothing, you don't feel weird, um, other people's mental illnesses.

Don't bother me.

You know, we're all in the same boat and we're all there for the same reason.

Wouldn't it be nice if that was spread to the greater society

Reese That would be wonderful.

Kimberly: Where we were accepting of people's mental illnesses.

So on that note, over the last, I don't know, I guess 20 years or so have things changed in society.

Reese: And so well in society, somewhat, I still believe it has a long way to go.

There's still stigma.

There's still like with my diagnosis, there's still people who say that's not real.

It's just like on television and you don't act that way.

I actually had someone tell me that.

I disclosed to a person that I was engaged to about my diagnosis and she said, you don't have that because if you had that you would act a lot different.

And, you know, people still believe, and even some professionals still believe that dissociative identities disorder is not a valid diagnosis.

Kimberly: Uh-huh.

Iseathere improvement?

Reese: I do believe there's improvement in places like bridge Haven, you know, there used to not be places like bridge Haven and people are on their own.

You see a lot of homeless people who have mental illnesses because they either don't have anyone to help get them going in the right direction, you know, family.

I can't stress enough how mental illness affects the relationship with your family.

It's like, there's one that's got something wrong with it.

You know, one child that's got something wrong and they don't know how to handle that.

A lot of times, well, I'm going to say my family didn't know how to handle that because I know that some families are very good with, their kids who have mental illnesses and very proactive.

Kimberly: And I think that's an improvement, don't you?

Reese: I do think that's an improvement

Kimberly: That any families at all now are willing to advocate and get help for their children.

Reese: Right.

And you don't automatically get thrown into an institution anymore.

Kimberly: Right, right.

Does that still happen?

Reese: I don't think so, at least in my world, I haven't seen it happen.

The only time that I've seen people, um, are short hospital stays, but I guess if a person was unable to even function in society, then that would probably, they would probably be institutionalized, but on the whole, I don't think that, that everyone needs to be institutionalized.

And I'm assuming that some of the people who are, don't really need to be.

Kimberly: You mentioned people who are homeless, um, just navigating the systems to get help is overwhelming.

Reese: Yes, it is.

Kimberly: And I think, I think that is the root of a lot of homelessness is just that the systems I suspect by design are so difficult to navigate that it's not, it's not a choice to be able to do that.

Um, and there are places like centers for independent living, uh, like, uh, and I guess, Bridgehaven who can help people to navigate those systems, how common is a place like Bridgehaven?

Reese: Not very common.

I believe it's the only place.

Well, it's not the only place in Louisville, but it's the only, it's the only place of their type in Louisville.

It's just, I can't even describe what it is, what it's like there.

It's a, it's a community.

You don't feel like you're going into a place to have your head shrunk.

Yeah.

Kimberly: Yeah.

Reese: It's a community of people.

Kimberly: So it's kind of like finding a home.

Reese:X is definitely.

Kimberly: That's, that's great.

So tell me what, what, what would you tell someone?

What, what, what would you tell someone who's struggling with mental illness?

They're there.

I think shame is sometimes something people feel, um, because we're told, of course, you know, like I think you and I spoke earlier about, you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and it's all on you and you know, this individualism, which we know is all a fallacy.

The people don't, people don't really live that way.

So what would you tell someone who is struggling with mental illness?

Reese: Well, I would tell them first not to give up and that there are places and.

There are phone numbers.

I have written a book and in that book, I have, I put in the numbers of, of mental health agencies that people could call if they, you know, needed to do that.

What I would tell somebody though, is that there is help out there.

They just need to be able to get plugged into it and how that's a good question.

That's a really good question because like we were talking about the homeless people don't have access to much of anything.

So that's one part I think that needs to be worked on in our society is having things readily available for people with mental illnesses that anybody can access.

Kimberly: Right.

To make, to make it easier.

Reese: Yeah.

Kimberly: The barrier to entry is so high to even get basic services.

Yeah.

So it is definitely hard to do, but I like what you said about, don't give up.

Anyone who hears this, here's our podcast, don't give up.

And so what, what, what can you say to someone who maybe knows a family member or a friend who's struggling?

What can they do to help?

Reese: Well, what they can do is first, just listen and not give advice as to what they should do or how they should be.

Cause families sometimes tend to do that.

I would say just let them be who they are.

And not try to put them in some kind of a box.

People are different anyway.

Um, and definitely if it's a family member, I would say help them get help.

Hook them up to something that will help them.

And in the end, it will help because the person who has the mental illness is getting helped or feeling better about themselves.

And I think that would just have an overall effect on the family itself.

Kimberly: I agree.

I agree.

But you know, uh, judging others, that's kind of like the favorite American pastime.

That's just what we do.

Reese: Yes, we do.

Kimberly: We love to do that.

So, uh, maybe we should put that aside and just accept people as they are.

And if, if there's, if there are struggles, let's believe that they're struggling and do what we can to try to find help because sometimes it's just calling a number.

Reese: Right.

And I like what you said about believe, um, people need to, to believe in what somebody else is telling them and not negate it.

Belief is a big thing.

Um, like we talked about when people don't believe there's such a thing as my diagnosis.

You know, that, that doesn't feel good.

Kimberly: No, no.

Yeah.

It's, it's important.

Uh, we've come a long way, like you said, but still so far to go.

So far to go, um, anyone listening can of course call the center for accessible living and they can reach out to bridge Haven if you're in Louisville.

And if not, then reach out to your, uh, local, wherever you are, your local or area center for independent living, because that's what we're, that's what we do.

We, we, we will find, we don't know the number to tell you.

We don't know who you to call, but we'll find it for you.

Reese: Well, I would even think that if somebody has a primary care physician and would even talk about it with their physician, I imagine that they could hook them up.

Kimberly: That's a great idea as well.

That's a wonderful idea.

Reese, this has been a fascinating conversation and I have learned a lot.

And I think it's important to continue to talk about mental health and mental illness.

So thank you so much for joining us today and for educating me and our listeners on so many aspects of mental health.

I appreciate it.

Reese: Well, thank you.

No problem.

Kimberly: Best of luck to you.

Demand and Disrupt is a production of the Advocato Press with generous support from the Center for Accessible Living based in Louisville, Kentucky.

Our executive producers are me, Kimberly Parsley and Dave Mathis.

Our sound engineer is Michael Parsley.

Thanks to Chris Anken for the use of his song, Change.

Don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode.

And please consider leaving a review.

You can find links to our email and social media in the show notes.

Please reach out and let's keep the conversation going.

Thanks everyone.

You say you've seen a change in me just for once, I think I would agree.

We both know there's a difference we've had our curtain call.

And this time the right thing's on the wall.

This wall of words we can't defend.

Two damaged hearts refuse to mend.

Change, this situation's pointless with each and every day.

It's not a game we need to play.

Can we try to make things better?

Prepare and rearrange things, but each and every letter spells out the need for us to open up our minds and hearts to change.

Change, robotize than what we'll be will be.

Disregard for good to set us free.

There's just no way of knowing if love lives anymore.

We turn out the light then close the door.

We try to make things better, prepare and rearrange things, but each and every letter spells out the need for us to open up our minds and hearts to change.

Change, change, change, change, change, change. you