Spectator Books: presidential lessons from Lincoln to Trump, with Doris Kearns Goodwin

In this week's books podcast, Sam is speaking to the Pulitzer-prizewinning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin about her new book Leadership: Lessons from the Presidents for Turbulent Times -- in which she describes what Lincoln, two Roosevelts and LBJ had in common, and didn't. Obviously, they talk a bit about that nice Mr Trump -- as well as hearing how Doris had perhaps history's classiest pyjama party at the White House with Hillary Clinton, and how as a young woman she worried at one point that she was going to be #metooed by Lyndon Johnson. Tune in, kids. Doris is remarkable.

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